There is no shelf.
I just finished listening to the latest Talis Library 2.0 Gang podcast (on headphones though, so Tim wouldn't wince at the sound of his own voice), this week on tagging and folksonomies. I'm struck by one thing that Casey Bisson mentions. He relates a story of a patron asking if they can put all the books he's interested in, and just those, on one shelf--the answer of course, is to laugh, of course the library won't be rearranged just for that one person!
In a virtual library, however, you can pull all the books you're interested in, and just those books.
In a library, each book has a call number, which places it on the shelf somewhere, next to the other books that have similar "aboutness." I might start looking for At home in the studio: the professionalization of women artists in America in the history section, because I know the author is a historian--but I wouldn't find it there, because the Library of Congress Call Number is an N (Fine Arts).
The answer to the patron at Casey's library, is that it doesn't matter where the books are physically located in the library - as long as he can pull them together intellectually.
For the purposes of shelving, in a library, At home in the studio is "about" fine arts - it can only be on one shelf, after all.
If that book was in my LT catalog though (and it is), it can be "about" multiple things--there doesn't have to be one essential place that it lives. I could tag it (and I have) so I could find it when I was searching for my history books, and when I wanted my art books. It can be on both "shelves", on any shelf - because there is no shelf (oh, postmodernism)...
Ok. Enough rehashing. Go bend spoons with your mind.
In a virtual library, however, you can pull all the books you're interested in, and just those books.
In a library, each book has a call number, which places it on the shelf somewhere, next to the other books that have similar "aboutness." I might start looking for At home in the studio: the professionalization of women artists in America in the history section, because I know the author is a historian--but I wouldn't find it there, because the Library of Congress Call Number is an N (Fine Arts).
The answer to the patron at Casey's library, is that it doesn't matter where the books are physically located in the library - as long as he can pull them together intellectually.
For the purposes of shelving, in a library, At home in the studio is "about" fine arts - it can only be on one shelf, after all.
If that book was in my LT catalog though (and it is), it can be "about" multiple things--there doesn't have to be one essential place that it lives. I could tag it (and I have) so I could find it when I was searching for my history books, and when I wanted my art books. It can be on both "shelves", on any shelf - because there is no shelf (oh, postmodernism)...Ok. Enough rehashing. Go bend spoons with your mind.
posted by Abby at 7:10 PM
4 Comments:
I didn't enjoy this one so much--entirely for vanity reasons. I felt tongue-tied and out-of-step. It might have been the heat, but I credit it to the fact that I've spent so much time thinking about tags--my head is so crammed full of them--that I didn't know where to begin. This is why people like me give talks--to clarify and organize our thinking.
I think I came off a little defensive. Although tags-on-books aren't the only way that tagging and libraries connect, they are the most important way. And LibraryThing has orders more tags, and, I think, better tags than anyone else. (I also think this is likely to remain so for some time.) Working with them day-in and day-out has given me a lot of insight into what people are doing, and what it might be useful for. I have come to see that people tag books quite differently from how they tag, say photos in Flickr. And they tag them differently in Amazon and LibraryThing.
Meanwhile blog posts and papers come out about what Del.icio.us and Flickr's tagging means to library information. When LibraryThing *is* considered, analysis is very binary—"tags are great," or "tags are terrible." Hey people, they're both! Let's see how and where...
This is starting to change. I stood up and promoted LibraryThing data for academic discussions, and Paul Miller has blogged about it ( http://blogs.talis.com/panlibus/archives/2006/07/a_great_opportu.php ). We've had a few inquiries. Let's hope we get more.
RJO. I appreciate contrarianness, but I'm confused about the point. Although LibraryThing does store it's data records book-by-book, it has an elaborate (and innovative) "works" system to bring it all together. That LibraryThing doesn't list a subject next to two titles next to an author next to a "see also," etc. as if they were all the same sort of thing is a strength, no?
Incidentally, someone should say that the "There is no shelf" motto is from Clay Shirky's "Ontology is Overrated." Although I think the brothers Wachowski get ultimate credit.
>[A] straightforward example would be: show me my collection,
>sorted by LC subject headings.
This, I think would be useful. Or, at least a list of the subjects IN your collection would be useful. In general, the LT solution would be to provide a list of subjects (or tags, or authors, etc.) and then allow drill-down. Providing a long list you have to scan through is what you do when you don't have the option to search.
>If my LT catalog has 2000 books in it, I can never generate
>a display with more than 2000 rows. But a card catalog of
>the same collection might have 10,000 "rows" (cards).
This is what I mean. While a card catalog has uses, it's use is to allow searching on data in a non-digital environment. LibraryThign COULD provide a card-catalog-like display, taking 200 web pages of unique books and turning them into 1,000 or 2,000 web pages of books-subjects-authors, etc. But paging through to page 760 or jumping there ("whoops, too far / whoops, to near") seems like insanity to me when you could just use a search box, or click on an instance of the term.
Now, there's a question of whether LibraryThing should be able to output card-catalog like output FOR THE PHYSICAL WORLD...
Please I need help. I can't understand how to download book covers. I tried to download one from Amazon for the group I started but,alas, after a frustraing hour I gave up! I even tried to capture one from my catalog to put on the group page but that doesn't work either. Is there a place on the site where members can see a help menu??PLEASE HELP.kbronte
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